The Fall of Keywords: Podcast

SEO 2016Our CEO, Mike Templeman, recently sat down with the guys over at Content Pros to have a discussion about keywords and how they play into SEO nowadays.

 

You can listen to the whole podcast right here.

What follows is a transcript of the Podcast:

Welcome to Content Pros Podcast, where we unlock the strategies and secrets of the best content marketers in the world and ask the questions you’ve always wanted asked.

Content Pros is sponsored by:

Convince & Convert, Content marketing strategy advisors and counselors to leading brands and organizations worldwide; Convince & Convert makes your content better.

Oracle Marketing Cloud, helping businesses use the latest marketing technologies to tell their stories and connect with their customers.

And by Uberflip, a content experience platform that allows marketers to create, manage, and optimize tailored content experiences for every stage of the buyer journey.

Now, here are your hosts, Jeffrey L. Cohen, director of content strategy at Oracle Marketing Cloud, and from Uberflip, Randy Frisch. Ready? Let’s talk to the pros!

 

RANDY:

Welcome to another episode of Content Pros. I’m very excited to have my co-host, Jeff Cohen, with me from Oracle Marketing Cloud. It’s me, Randy Frisch, at Uberflip, chatting with you right now, and very excited on this episode today that we’re going to have Mike Templeman join us from Foxtail Marketing.

It’s really cool; I love when I meet people and start to build a relationship with them because I read a piece of their content. And that’s actually the case with Mike, and, you know, we may even end up digging into that piece of content because it was only a few months back, so it’s still pretty relevant these days. But before we do that, Jeff, I know you’ve got a good stat dug up for us, so why don’t you kick things off for a little banter between you and I?

 

JEFF:

Sure. Thanks, Randy. Great to be here and great to kick off this episode of Content Pros with a stat about mobilegeddon: one of those awful terms that people used when Google made a change last year to its mobile algorithm, and it turns out that over 40% of Fortune 500 websites actually were not mobile optimized when that update happened. So, what’s your take on that, Randy?

 

RANDY:

It’s wild. I both can’t believe it and can believe it. You know what I mean by that? It’s like I feel like we’ve been talking about the need to be mobile ready for a decade now. It may be a decade, I mean, I’m just thinking off the top of my head in terms of going to conferences where they were talking about mobile being the future. And the fact that we aren’t there, with how many times we’ve redesigned our websites and put new effort towards new copy or new design, it’s really astonishing.

Then, on the flip side, you take in some of these experiences that we go to to engage in content, to engage in a company’s site, and, you know, it doesn’t shock you when you think about it. Right? I mean, you remember the good ones, but you remember the bad ones, too. So, I don’t think it’s that shocking. I don’t know. What do you find, Jeff, in terms of your preparation around mobile for your team?

 

JEFF:

Well, it’s interesting when you think about this kind of stat because you would think that big companies – Fortune 500 companies – would actually be able to solve this. They’d have the resources, and they’d be able to deal with it.

And then you look at some small companies, which you wouldn’t think have the resources, but, in fact, they’re completely mobile friendly, completely mobile optimized.

And I think it comes down to a vision thing. Lots of content teams and marketing teams are actually led by people with vision, who understand what’s going on, understand the importance of how everything needs to work together. And I think it’s one of those things where there are marketers and content creators who just get it, and they understand the importance of this. And they find the time, they find the resources, they find the budget to make this stuff happen.

Because, when you’re out in the world, you don’t really see people carrying around their laptops, consuming content. You see them on their phones and reading blog posts and checking their social network feeds while they’re waiting in line, riding the bus, whatever it is they do. Even walking down the street, which is not that safe. But if they’re consuming content walking down the street, I think content creators might be happy about that a little bit.

 

RANDY:

Absolutely. Yeah, I would say that I’m going to guess at least 75%, if not 90, of the content I consume is on a mobile device. It’s amazing to me, as you pointed out, that we aren’t accommodating to this. It’s amazing to me that my company, at Uberflip, where part of what we do is manage experiences and – not intended as a plug, but – I can’t believe that we’re still landing deals because we offer this mobile, optimized experience, and that people have not prioritized that already. I know one person’s going to be able to chat more with us.

So, Jeff, why don’t you bring Mike in and give a little context? And Mike, I’m sure will shed some light around experience.

 

JEFF:

Thanks, Randy. So, Mike, welcome to this episode of Content Pros. You’re the founder of Foxtail Marketing. Tell us a little bit about the business that Foxtail Marketing is in besides marketing.

 

MIKE:

Yeah. Well, I appreciate it, guys. Thank you very much.

So, Foxtail Marketing – we are, as you just said, in marketing, but we are a full funnel agency, in the sense that we look at really the entire journey that a customer takes and what needs to be delivered to them in forms of content, social, email, you know, whatever medium you may be using, in order to get them to another stage in the funnel.

And I know a lot of people have been beating up on the funnel just because “Oh, you know, the funnel is too rigid. It’s too this. It’s too that,” but really it’s a great framework for any marketing campaign. And it ensures that you’re not just marketing for the sake of marketing, or, as I like to call it, The Field of Dreams marketing, where you build it and expect people to come. Rather, you build it, you deploy it, and that’s really our core competency.

 

JEFF:

You’ve shared some of your successes with us that we will get to in a minute, but the place that I want to start is you have experienced crazy growth in your own company. And I assume part of that is due to content. Lots of marketing agencies certainly have trouble creating their own content. It’s that whole cobbler shoes idea. Tell me a little bit about how you have used content to grow your firm in this pretty spectacular way.

 

MIKE:

Yeah, you know, it’s been a wild ride. We’re a bootstrap company, so growth is somewhat painful sometimes. But we’ve gone from two employees to over 60 employees in just under two years. And, with that, from a content perspective, we practice what we preach around here. So, a very active blog, we have dozens of e-books, whitepapers, case studies, infographics, videos, all these activities and pieces of content that we’ve created, and then we really work heavily on promoting that content.

 

So, there’s actually some agencies out there that I believe produce more content than we do; we’re not the leaders in content creation from raw number, but we do a lot with that content: from social promotion, to earned media, positioning it in a way that makes a journalist’s job easier so we can get it picked up that way, and then personally, then a couple of other people here in the agency, we maintain some columns on these larger publications, such as ForbesInc, and Entrepreneur Magazine, and these places, and that’s been a huge benefit, obviously, to be able to tap into those audiences.

 

But the ideas of tapping into a preexisting audience can be done at any level. It doesn’t have to necessarily be a Forbes or an Entrepreneur, but, you know, those methodologies can be emulated by really any company. But that’s really what’s helped us is the distribution of the content.

 

JEFF:

That actually is something that I was going to hone in on: when you talk about distribution, that’s obviously something that takes time. And what you have done is, it sounds like you’ve actually prioritized the employment of marketing practitioners, the people who don’t kind of fall into the traditional working, billable hours, and kind of managing that whole agency side of things. So, does that actually feel like a different business model for you, as a marketing agency? Or is that just the idea of “This is how we need to approach this, and we need people who are going to focus on our distribution,” I guess rather than a traditional sales person going out and hitting the streets the old way?

 

MIKE:

Yeah, and that’s the crazy thing, is we actually don’t have your traditional sales model here at Foxtail. Everything we close is brought via inbound methodologies, and there’s no cold calling. There’s nothing outbound from any of the sales people here, to the point where we really barely do trade shows just because I don’t find them too effective.

What we have, though is a culture of promotion from everybody here. We have probably over 30% of the team members at Foxtail that maintain these contributorships at other sites, and we don’t pay them to do that, and we don’t ask them to do that. They’re all very active on social media. We have people that are interns here that bring in new deals because they love talking about it. And it’s because we’ve built a culture of – I hate to say “self promotion,” but really just talking about ourselves and having the opportunity to build your own, personal brand. And by building the individual’s personal brand around here, they’re really able to build the company brand, as well.

 

JEFF:

That’s great, Mike. I love the idea of a company that not just respects its employees’ personal brands, but encourages them to build it because they understand the value for the company. Lots of companies don’t do that.

 

MIKE:

It’s been something very near and dear to my heart. I started as a personal brand and then was able to transition over to Foxtail. Mind you, Foxtail is latched onto my personal brand in a very big way, and, in fact, when we first started, we were faking it until we made it in the sense that we appeared a lot bigger than we were. There’s a funny story that we talk about here in that, when we first started off, when there was two or three people here, we were being featured on my Entrepreneur column, and we would have clients call us up and say “Hey! I don’t know if you’re accepting any new business right now, but we’d really like to work with you guys,” and we’re sitting here just thinking, we will accept anybody that walks through the door with a pulse, and we have clients asking us if we will potentially take them on.

 

It just gave us that larger-than-what-we-were image, and I really like the idea that people are here building their own personal brand because it gives them an incentive to push, to create, and just to really leverage their full potential and their creativity. And people love doing it, too. We’re all driven by recognition, and so when someone can see their face and name and bio on a website that they respect, it’s huge.

 

RANDY:

Well, I mean, the funny thing about that, Mike, is that that’s how I got to know you, as I alluded to at the beginning. I’d read one of those posts on entrepreneur.com, my least favorite word to type, easiest word to typo on. It was a great post, and, to be honest, I was like, who is this guy? Because you were very much advocating for everything that I advocate for and my business advocates for, which is – and this was, granted, just one post, but I know it’s a big part of how you approach work with your clients at Foxtail and what you’re trying to change in terms of how they go to market.

Maybe you can share what I loved about that by giving us a little synopsis around what you were capturing around the importance of experience because this is actually where Jeff had pulled that stat from earlier today.

 

MIKE:

And, Randy, with that, you’re describing the post that stated that SEO is now – or should be – termed “search experience optimization,” as opposed to “search engine optimization,” correct?

 

RANDY:

Exactly. I think it’s a clever but perfect name at the same time.

 

MIKE:

And really why I say that, and why I harp on that, is we are very good at SEO. We’ve won a lot of awards for our SEO, and SEO permeates everything we do here.

 

However, we do not pitch SEO. And we oftentimes come to these pitches, or a client will call us up, and their big question is, “Well, what keywords can you get me to rank for?” and “How much volume is there?” and “When can I expect to be number 1 on Google?” and these types of questions that are so – I mean, I thought we stopped talking about that stuff ten years ago.

 

But that’s what they still believe SEO is. And, in truth, keywords don’t mean much. I mean, they’re a signal, and we use them as a signal, but if you experience a rise in your keywords, does it always correlate to a rise in sales? Absolutely not.

 

There’s this nice example that I use for people with this: I will tell a client to quickly pull up Google for me, and I’ll say, “Okay, search SEO agency for me.” And they’ll search it. And that keyword, that SEO agency, has, I don’t know, 50,000 volume. Right? Incredibly competitive. And we show up on the second page. And I look at that, and I say, “Okay, second page. Nobody’s gonna search that.” I mean, no one’s gonna find us there. Even though it’s an impressive ranking of being 19th for that keyword, worldwide, that’s awesome. It doesn’t mean anything. It means absolutely nothing. We get no traffic from that keyword unless it’s from a bought or someone trying to sell us something.

 

So then I tell them, “Okay, do me a favor, now. Search SaaS marketing agency.” Software as a Service, S.A.A.S. Marketing Agency. And they search that, and we’re number 1 there. And that keyword maybe has ten to 15 volume, so, literally, a magnitude lower. A 5,000 times lower than the other one. And yet, we probably get ten solid inquiries per month and three to four new clients per month from that one keyword. And each client averaging anywhere from 5-15 thousand dollars in revenue for us per month.

 

That keyword is worth just truckloads more than the other one. I tell them, “Okay, if all we’re focusing on is the volume of a keyword, the competition of a keyword, where we rank for that keyword, we’re lost.” I rank for this keyword number 1, and that keyword doesn’t even show up on most keyword tracking tools. Yet it is most likely one of our most valuable keywords. And the reason being is that it has high buying intent, it is specifically targeted towards our audience, and it’s not that competitive, so we’re able to make a bigger impact and a bigger splash there. And when people come to that page, they actually are given information as opposed to a sales pitch.

 

And I think that also plays a large role in it, with the experience optimization, in that, yes, we’ve ranked, we’ve had our SEO, in the old taxonomy of the word, optimized for that. But now, from a SEO new taxonomy of experience optimization, they’re getting real information, there’s opportunities for them to download an eBook on SaaS marketing right there and B2B lead generation right there so people are able to download and get more information, and those pieces of content, I mean, they tell them exactly how the sausage is made. And we tell everybody, “Tell everyone how the sausage is made.”

 

There’s no more secrets nowadays. So if you’re trying to hold anything back for proprietary reasons on your methodologies, you just look kind of foolish sometimes. I’m not saying put your patents up on the website, but you know what I mean, in that people want to know what you’re going to do for them, and how you’re going to do it, and those types of things. So, we’ve optimized for that, and we’ve given the client what they were experiencing when they searched that.

 

And that’s, I think, what is missing in SEO nowadays, is people don’t look at the intent. They just look at the numbers, they look at the figures, but they don’t figure out “What is my audience?” “What is my customer trying to accomplish when they’re searching this or when they’re going on this journey?” And that’s where we come back to the funnel in saying “What journey do you want your customer to take?” Let’s map this out, and let’s really effect what they’re seeing and how they’re seeing it and why they are seeing it. And what you end up with, and what’s funny is, we’ve never built a link to that page, that SaaS Marketing page. We’ve never built a anchor text that said SaaS Marketing or any of those activities. And yet we rank number 1 for that. If we were doing the old methods of SEO, we would still be just floundering, looking for something to boost SEO agency up to the first page. But we don’t. Instead, we go after where our customers are, and what they’re looking for.

 

RANDY:

That makes a lot of sense. I mean, we hear so much from our content strategy about thinking about our personas, writing content for our personas, and all you’re suggesting here is just extending that to how we think about what are the search terms that those personas are going to look for, as well. But there’s another part of that article which I also enjoyed, and one of the problems with this buzz word of the day lately of “experience” is it has various aspects to its meaning. So, you’ve talked about the intent aspect of it, but there’s also that actual experience: what does that journey feel like? What does the web experience look like? How is Google recognizing that? Maybe you can touch a little bit on some of the keys, and maybe and interesting way to do it is, for those who are listening to the podcast, what are two or three things that they can do to audit their own site? To ensure whether it’s search experience optimized?

 

MIKE:

Yep. And I love that you bring up the measuring of it because a lot of people will look at experience and say, “Well, that’s qualitative, Mike. How do you measure someone’s experience or their happiness or something like that?”

But, in truth, everything’s become quantitative, in my opinion. We have this poster up – well, not a poster, but it’s a vinyl lettering thing with a big picture of Biggie Smalls and the Wu-Tang Clan, and it says “Data rules everything around me” up on our office wall. And we live by that. We think that data can measure anything nowadays. So, if you’re looking at what kind of experiences your customers are having there, their actions will tell you what their experience is.

So, if you go to your Google Analytics, and you just want to do a quick audit, there’s a lot of noise on Google Analytics, but you can distill it down pretty quickly. So, what you can do – and some, I guess signals that are going to tell you about experience more than others are, one is bounce rate. If you’re optimizing your site correctly to where you’re expecting them to take more than one step to show interest, as opposed to just coming to a landing page that is an end point, and they have to bounce away from there because the only thing they can do is fill out a form and then leave. But, rather, if they’re finding your site through organic purposes and other inbound methodologies, then they’re usually going to go to numerous pages, so a bounce rate should be relatively low because that means they are not ending on the page they arrived on, but rather going into deeper pages on the website and really broadening their research into your agency or your company.

And then the other one I really like to look at is not necessarily time on site because that can be diluted with referral traffic and some other stuff that can be just – and you want to make sure you have proper filters on your analytics so you’re getting a clean data set, here – but pages per session is also something I like to look at. This tells you if you’re really answering questions for your target audience because if they are coming to one page and leaving, two pages and leaving, depending on what your product is, or your service, you might not be giving them the experience they require.

So, while you don’t want them to bounce, you also don’t want them just to go two pages deep – because if they go two pages, then obviously they’re not bouncing, but I still don’t think that’s a huge symbol of – or a huge signal that they’re engaged. So, we usually look to have people go to multiple pages to follow a journey that we’re trying to take them on: find us on our blog, but then go to our About Us page, go meet some of the team members, come to some of our service pages, go download some of the content, and, hell, don’t even fill out a form.

I don’t care if you fill out a form right now. But take a leave behind that we’ve put on the site. Let us capture you for remarketing in these types of activities. Those are two stats. I mean, there’s a ton of other ones we can go into, but those are two easy to identify ones where people should be looking at getting those as optimized as possible: your bounce rate as low as possible, your page views as high as possible.

 

JEFF:

Thanks, Mike. That’s some great feedback for our listeners. And if you want to take your experience in another direction, you want to think about the stories you’re telling. If you want to take your content marketing efforts even further, you’ve got to focus on stories of your team, your company, and your vision. Take a tip from host Park Howell on The Business of Story podcast. Another Convince & Convert production. With a stellar lineup of storytellers that span across all industries, from Hollywood to B2B, their insights can help take your business content from meh to wow. Tune in at businessofstory.com. So, you actually shared with us some examples of some stories about your customers, and one of the ones that was interesting was about actually helping people discover the right places where their content should be. Can you share that story with us?

 

MIKE:

Yeah, so, I’m actually going to be doing a webinar on this later this week, where I’m going to be breaking it down, slide by slide, but there’s a quick, easy way for a lot of people to identify where people are coming in to their site, and, from that, what pages you really need to be optimizing.

Unfortunately, SEO, again, with the old methodologies, people look at it and say “Hey, we need to be optimizing this page because it ranks for this keyword, this and that.” So, we had a client that came to us and said, “Mike, these are our services. This is what brings people in. These are our tier 1 pages.” And I looked at them, and I said, “Okay, let me check something.” So I go down to their website, Google Analytics, again, a ten-second filter, I go in there, and I go organic traffic, I look at what landing pages people are coming in. So that tells me if they’re landing on that page, and if it’s from organic traffic, it’s clearly coming from some kind of search result that they’re identifying.

And I pulled up this page for them and I said, “Actually, you know, like 80% of the traffic that’s not to your home page is coming to this one page: forward slash, checklists, templates. What is that?” And they all stopped and looked kind of dumbfounded, so we pulled up the page, and they said, “Oh, my goodness. This? This is where 80% of our traffic is coming from?” I said, “It’s not just where 80% of your traffic is coming from; it’s where 80% of your contact forms and MQLs and SQls are coming from.”

And they had no idea to this because they assumed, well, our service page is where we talk about our services. And it’s where we do this, where we do that. Their best page by far was something they put together just haphazardly, didn’t give it a second thought, and it was an entire index list of all of the checklists and audit forms that people could download for free. And what ended up happening was this page was ranking for probably 500 keywords, which is how you could use keywords as an actual signal, and not as the goal, there. And it was answering their audience’s question, because people were searching for help with an audit or how to get started with a checklist.

And, truth be told, what’s funny is that all of these pdfs they had on there are to be printed off and used. Well, their application is to make digital checklists and audits, so it seems almost counter-intuitive. Why are you giving them a paper version of something you’re going to do on an app?

But what was great is that they were showing people how the sausage is made manually. This is how you have to do it if you’re going to keep paper records – or you can use the app. And, so then, all of a sudden, we started looking into it and realized that a lot of their competitors were also ranking because of these list webpages, but that they weren’t optimizing them fully, and they were also going about the mistake of targeting their service pages and their top level, tier 1 pages as they described it.

So, we identified all their competitors, the holes that they were filling that we weren’t, and we built out that checklist page to the upteenth degree. Optimized all the content, put in hundreds more checklists in there that they could use, and very, very, very quickly saw this massive spike in organic traffic because that page just continued to grow in value to them. And what was really funny is that everybody came to that meeting with gut feelings and preconceptions. “Well, we do this. We do this. And our customers do this. And that’s the way it is.” The data was telling them something entirely different that none of them had even broached. And once the data was presented, nobody argued the point.

All of these product managers that used to bicker and fight over what the focus was going to be – suddenly everyone was on the same team, and they all became so excited about the potential about what this page could do for them. And that’s a way of optimizing for experience. Finding where your customers are really coming in, what questions are they really asking, and how can you really solve that for them.

 

JEFF:

That’s great. I’d almost term that whole list of checklists “accidental content.”

 

MIKE:

Exactly.

 

JEFF:

One of those things that you actually do need to dig in, find the research, or find the data, and really understand where your traffic’s going. Can you share with us – you had told us previously about a real estate company that you’d worked with. Again, this is one of those things where they were not hopeful going into it, and you actually did some research and found where their audience was really coming from.

 

MIKE:

Yeah.

 

JEFF:

And then, after that, we’ll pass it back to Randy.

 

MIKE:

Absolutely. So, that one was a high-end, real estate rental company, and they had tried everything: PPC, SEO, social media, all of these activities. But the big problem was all of their keywords put them directly in competition with Expedia, Travelocity, VRBO, AirBnB, all these massive competitors that they don’t have a prayer of ranking against. And their average order value, or their customer value, is upwards of $20,000. I mean, they’re renting properties up in Park City during Sundance to Tom Hanks for $20,000 a night and stuff like that. So why are they even going up against Travelocity, Expedia, and these groups?

And so they had paid thousands upon thousands of dollars over years to marketing agencies that were getting them better keyword rankings or better this or that. And we looked at them and said, “You know, let’s really identify who your buyer is. Is your buyer searching these terms? Or is your buyer more of a relationship individual that goes to their trusted people because they are wealthy individuals who don’t want to just take the first thing that’s thrown at them, and they always do, you know, if you have money, you’re always doing research on stuff because you don’t want to lose that money?” And we really identified that their customer journey had nothing to do with PPC or with SEO. And so, we shifted it to email. And, with very little effort, we took the images of their high-end properties, and, as we described it in this, we made a newsletter that we called “Property Porn” because really wealthy individuals are naturally kind of envious of each other. They’re always looking at the yacht next door, if you will. And so they love looking at properties. And they love looking at real estate.

 

So we started highlighting these trophy properties in a weekly newsletter. And then we started promoting that weekly newsletter on social media, so instead of their old tactics, where they said, “Oh, Facebook never works,” well, we didn’t target Facebook to say “Hey, come rent a property;” instead we targeted Facebook with some really clear audience targeting and said, “Hey, check out this newsletter that features these high-end properties.” And those high-end property features were put on the blog, and then distributed through the newsletter, and then promoted on social media.

So all of those working on concert with each other. And what started happening was their newsletter just went gangbusters. Signups. Dozens of signups per day, and getting them to sign up for the newsletter for pennies from social promotion. I mean, literally, just like five, six cents per signup on there. And, in the first three months we worked with them, they had doubled their previous season’s bookings. The next year we worked with them through the ski season, they had again doubled the previous year. So four Xs from what it was two years before. And that was by actually removing all of their PPC, all of the SEO focus, and their – mind you, their organic traffic started rising like crazy because these large blog posts and the features of these real estate things went really far for SEO purposes. And then they even got picked up by a few newspapers who wanted to do high-end property features in their Lifestyles section.

So now they’re getting syndicated on these news sites, these local news sites, as well as other sites that wanted to feature these properties, and before they know it, they now have too much business. And it was literally just writing one new blog post per week, a newsletter that goes out weekly, and then some social promotion. And the effects that it had were staggering. And it wasn’t this massive overhaul, or anything of that nature, and I thought that was really, really interesting because it just took a slight shift in their targeting.

 

RANDY:

I love these examples. I think what they really capture, Mike, is, as you mentioned earlier, that journey and really thinking about moving beyond just content creation and ensuring we think about the experience, as you said, and then on to distribution, and so on, to really understand what content’s working. And I applaud you and your clients for investing in those types of strategies. We’ve got time for one more lightning question. We always want to get an idea of our guests and what got them to this point, so take us back to your childhood. What did you want to be, growing up?

 

MIKE:

Okay, so. Really quick story to it, I went to Sea World as a kid, and I was standing on the side of a pool, and a dolphin threw a ball to me. I was seven years old. I then went to Marineland, which is Canada’s version of Sea World, and I was standing next to a pool, and a dolphin threw another ball to me, at which point, I had an epiphany: I have a connection with dolphins. Dolphins love me. And so I said to the trainer, “Hey! What are you?” They go, “Well, I’m a marine biologist.” And I thought, that’s what I have to be. I have to be a marine biologist because I have this inherent connection to these marine mammals. And then I got all the way – I mean, I was gung ho on this, all the way up through college. And then I got to college, and I really started doing some research and found out that marine biology actually requires an immense amount of science, which I hate. And it also very rarely ends up with you getting to throw a ball around with a dolphin. In fact, it’s usually just lab work. So very quickly shifted away from that and went towards an English degree because I wanted an easy track through college, unfortunately. And my dreams were dashed just as soon as I found out it wasn’t really what I thought it was.

 

RANDY:

That’s hilarious. Well, it seems like you found your calling because, just telling that story, it’s very evident that you’re a good storyteller, good writer, as I’ve experienced, so it sounds like you found your calling, after all. Just like George Costanza, didn’t end up getting to go that marine biologist route. I couldn’t resist, right?

Well, listen, if everyone’s enjoying this chat, you know, we’re talking a lot about experience, there’s a couple of ways that you can learn more about experience. I urge you to check out that article by Mike on entrepreneur.com called “SEO Is Now Search Experience Optimization.”

Another opportunity that I’m throwing through my company here in Toronto, Canada – same place where we have Marineland, as you said – is an opportunity to hear from a lot of great content leaders who are going to join us for the Uberflip experience, which is a two-day summit up here in Toronto talking a lot about how content can be used throughout that buyer journey. I urge everyone to take a look at uberflip.com/experience. A

nd, in the meantime, we’ve got a lot of other great content that all helps think about the different stages, so check out more Content Pros podcasts at contentprospodcast.com. You can also find these podcasts on Stitcher or iTunes. If you’re on there, please take the time to give us feedback. Leave a review, let us know what you like, let us know what we could do better. What are the topics that are challenging you as a marketer focused on content today?

In the meantime, from Jeff at Oracle Marketing Cloud, it’s me, Randy, from Uberflip. Thank you so much for taking the time. And thanks to Mike Templeman from Foxtail Marketing.

Thanks for tuning in to Content Pros. Please leave a review and subscribe on iTunes or your favorite podcast listening app. Go to contentprospodcast.com for a complete show archive and greatest hits. Content Pros is sponsored by Convince & Convert, Oracle Marketing Cloud, and by Uberflip, and is produced by Convince & Convert Media. Find more great shows like Content Pros at marketingpodcast.com, the first search engine for marketing podcasts.

Mike Templeman

About Mike Templeman

Mike Templeman is the CEO and Founder of Foxtail Marketing. He is passionate about tech, marketing and startups. When not tapping away at his keyboard, he can be found spending time with his wife and kids. He is also Canadian… or more importantly, he is Canadian.

Foxtail Marketing is a digital marketing firm that provides content marketing, digital marketing, and lead generation services for small and mid-market companies.

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